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joecoz17
Ross,

I am 29 I have been a good golfer most of my life 4-7 handicap but have always struggled with inconsistencies. I have good power but have struggled with fast hips or fast hands causing over draws and pushes my common 2 misses. I also had a tendency with my old swing to drop my right shoulder below plane on the downswing.

Your system is definitely helping me groove a much more consistent powerful swing, especially with my driver I am noticing at the dome this winter I am consistently hitting it hard and dead straight, also able to cut the ball on demand.

One thing I am noticing is I am still struggling with an occasional over draw or push, draws more common with my irons, and push more common with fairway wood.

I am concentrating on keening my hands quiet and my left wrist bowed through the swing so I don't think that is the number 1 cause I think it may be my fast hips still.

I notice that after I complete my back swing with my shoulders if my first move after transition is more of a squatting with my butt then a turn with my hips I hit it straighter and maybe even harder, but my misses become fat shots if I overdo it.

Just wanted your take on some pointers you may add to your swing method with someone with very quick/powerful hip movement/advanced golfer.
Ross
My first thought is you need to watch the "Ross Move" so you're sure you're getting your arms/club (template) back in front every time.  You must be able to sense, at the top of the backswing, unwinding the arms/club back in front.  I feel my hips bring my template down and around in one complete movement.  You will know because your arms/club and body rotation all  end exactly at the same time facing the target.  You do not want the body to have finished and then the arms/club arrive late (would block the shot or cut).  Your over draw might be a slight flip or the arms are getting ahead of your body rotation.  You may be using your arms (not good) to help the downswing.  You must let the large muscles unwind the arms/club back down and around to the finish.  That should keep the timing perfect.  You might be keeping your hands quiet, but your arms are helping.  Again watch the "Ross Move"

Move Less ... Get Good!   

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joecoz17
Ross,

Thanks for the reply, I have watched all your videos including the Ross move. I just re-watched the Ross move for reinforcement. 

Starting the downswing from the ground up and with my hips, keeping my hands passive and a feeling that the hands are "left behind" so they don't engage I am able to get a good amount of separation between my hip angle and my shoulder angle (my hips can be what seems to be  45 degrees facing the target when my shoulders just return to square). So I am confused as to how the hips "pull" the elbows down back in front, I don't see the connection.

For me when I think about passive hands it is also passive arms for me and maybe that is where there is a disconnect. You say in the Ross move that you need to feel the elbows pulling back in front. Is that something I need to actively engage my arm muscles to do (but not my hands). In other words the sequence of events are : weight more forward, knees slide, hips turn, elbows pull down in front (actively). Because when I feel passive and with my arms and hands I feel like they are left behind and honestly that is when I hit it the best using your method when I feel like my arms are just whipping through the target line as a result of my forward turn.
Ross
Essentially all we're doing is using the body's rotation to bring the arms back down and around to the left (right hander). You don't have to use the hips.  What ever you can do using the body's rotation to bring the arms back down is fine.  This is a very natural idea (exactly like throwing a ball).  You want to let the body swing the arms. 

No, the elbows or arms don't ever move themselves.  They just go along and are "pulled down" by the body unwinding.  Again, let the body unwinding, bring the arms/club back down in front of the body.  It is like letting gravity take over.  You don't lift the arms up on the backswing and you don't hold them up as the downswing starts.  They just come back down.  The shoulders move the arms/club on the backswing, then they just follow back down.

Make sure you're winding up correctly on the backswing.  On the takeaway, the shoulders move first and take the slack out of your back... then they keep turning a bit more to turn the hips a little... THEN, when you start to unwind the downswing, you should see (and feel) the club/arms immediately coming down too or you're disconnected.  You should not be able to unwind your body without the arms/club coming down too.  If you can, you did not windup correctly.

Move Less ... Get Good!   

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joecoz17
Thanks I hit some balls over the weekend thinking about what you said. Would you agree that an early rotation of the hips on the back swing or an over rotation of the hips on the back swing could then cause this disconnection on the forward swing?

Is it a good thought for someone like myself to focus on a shoulder turn while keeping my hips quiet/restricted on the back swing?

Ross
Absolutely!  I think of giving the shoulders a "head start".  Then eventually the shoulders rotate the hips (if needed on fuller swings).  Again, this move takes the "slack" out of the back muscles which creates a continuity (throughout the muscles) from top down.  This is like winding up a rubber band.

Move Less ... Get Good!   

DUPLESSISGOLF
DenisB
I’m a new student and member. I’m having the same problem in that I have fast hips and my hips get ahead of my arms at impact. On one of your video you show the setup and impact position. The hips are only slightly open at impact as compare to where they are at impact. Since on the backswing the shoulder rotation is much bigger then the rotation of the hips, this would require much more downswing rotation of the shoulder then the hips. I’m a single digit player and have played where the hips really rotate hard open on the downswing to whip the club down (X factor?). I like your idea of giving the shoulder turn a head start to bring the ‘template’ back in front of the body so that everything can rotate to face the target. Thank you.
Ross
To make sure you understand my comment about the shoulders getting a head start (and not to confuse other students)... the shoulders getting a "head start" is on the takeaway (not the downswing).  The downswing unwinds from ground up (not the shoulders moving first from the top of the backswing... if that is what you're saying).

The shoulders start first on the takeaway to wind the back muscles from top down like a rubber band.  Eventually, the shoulders will turn the hips a little on the backswing.  This is also why at impact, the hips are slightly turned open.  The shoulders have not quite realigned with the hips yet and everything is accelerating and still unwinding.

Move Less ... Get Good!   

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joecoz17
Ross,

Still think I struggle with this. One setup thought that has seemed to help is to make sure I set up with a feeling of my weight pushing down into the ground as well with inward knee tension. Almost a feeling like I'm tensioning my knees in a little and pushing weight down into ground to get a real strong base to quiet hips. Then I keep that tension in my backswing to feel like I'm only turning my shoulders.

Then on the downswing I almost need to feel like I'm starting with my right shoulder if I concentrate on starting with my lower body I tend to get a head of it or end up flipping my hands.

Let me know if you think these thoughts work with what you "preach"

I will try to get some video to you in a few weeks
Joe
Ross
Your first paragraph yes.  Your second defiantly no.  With my method the downswing starts and unwinds from ground up not the shoulders.  If you're doing this, it is a fix for something else that is not right. Sorry.

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