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Ross

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 #1 

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Jimbohaw

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 #2 
Ross,
Is there any merit to pinching one's knee slightly at set up in order to resist the hips turning too soon with the shoulder turn? I know you teach to pinch the knees when putting, but I was wondering if that would help with the regular swing, especially pinching in slightly the back knee. I haven't tried it on a real swing yet, but while rehearsing it in slow motion it seems like it would really provide the torque and snap we are looking for as we unwind from the ground up, especially with the abbreviated turn you have been advocating. Thoughts?
Ross

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 #3 
Yes, I think it is beneficial.  It is subtle and the knees are helping keep a "braced" feeling towards the insides (insteps) of the feet and offering a bit of resistance. 

Now, the lower body is not just "locked in place", the knees need to move and rotate... and you will eventually (after impact), rotate to the "outside" of the front foot... we just don't want to ever get to the outside of the back foot.

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Tallguy

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 #4 
Ross: I know we want to keep the elbows pinched together throughout the swing.  Should we also maintain a tight connection or seal "Attachment" with both upper arms to the chest throughout the swing?  Thanks!
Ross

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 #5 
I know what you're saying and remember years ago doing drills with head covers under my arms etc., but I believe you don't have to concern yourself with "attachment".  That concern is not necessary when the arms are controlled by the shoulders and DON'T MOVE THEMSELVES (like lifting).

Instead of trying to "attach" the upper arms to the chest, just let the shoulders control the "template" (the arms/club/wrists shape) and make sure that during the swing, the arms just "go for a ride*" and are not "activated" or help.

One other thought on the "pinched" elbows.  We don't want to take that too far and apply so much "elbows towards each other pressure" that you restrict the shoulder movement.  This pinch is subtle... they just need to try to work close together during the swing.  The most important elbow is the "front elbow" and it starting pointing back at the hip and returning pointing back at the hip through impact.  This fixes many things.  Another way to say this is ... if there is a "dominate elbow", it is always the front since it helps controls the club face.

* Now, the arms/hands can't be floppy and loose.  The arms/wrists have jobs to do in maintaining their setup shape.

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Ross

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 #6 
What we want to achieve at setup, is gripping the club and setting the wrists, as close to how they will be at impact, ... this will be, in the most solid "transfer" position we can create.  What I mean is ... there are "maximized angles" the wrists can be in, at impact, that will produce the most "solid" transfer of energy, through the arms, wrists & hands, across into the grip and club shaft down to the ball, so impact is supported the best.  I know this is a mouth full, but that is the only way I can explain what we need, ... which leads to your "what should the angle be"? question.  Everyone is different, but can find out fairly easily.

If you just hold a club in your front hand (front hand only) and then tighten your front hand grip.  Now, using your front arm, move the club out in front of you parallel to the ground.  Now, use only your arm to move the club back and forth (just your arm).  Do not bend your wrist at all, use only your arm.  You are going to find the most solid position for the shaft to be aligned with the front arm. 

Now, doing the same drill, if you bend the front wrist in a bit and move the arm, you'll feel that is is much weaker.  You can also do the opposite and bend the front wrist out a lot, and it too is weaker when you move your arm only.  Eventually, you will find the most solid wrist position.  This is usually flat or just bowed out a bit.  So, now you have the most solid shaft alignment and best wrist position for you.  Once you have those two positions, you can just add the back hand comfortably to the grip equation.  The back hand grip pressure is equal to, or less than the front grip pressure.  When in doubt, the front dominates ALWAYS.


Here is another way to help find the perfect impact shaft/wrist angles ... this drill will help find this "ideal" solid "transfer" position at impact: Door Jamb Drill

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Tallguy

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 #7 
Thanks For all The Great advice, Ross!  Apparently there is some confusing instruction on whether the left elbow should point at the left hip or at the target at impact.. Could you please clear that up for us? 
Ross

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 #8 
The front elbow points at the front hip through impact.  If it points at the target, the face will be opened and you'll have to use your hands to fix the club face.

FYI I removed the link you posted to "other" golf instruction, so we don't start any confusion.  Did you find confusion here at DUPLESSISGOLF? or did you mean, you were confused because you'd heard something different.  There are many things at DUPLESSISGOLF that are contrary to traditional instruction. 

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Tallguy

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 #9 
Confused because I heard something different.  I was worried I might injure my elbow by hitting many practice balls with the elbow pointing down at impact, but I guess you recommend the left elbow "Folding"  Shortly After Impact???????  I realize your instruction is contrary to tradition, but It's worked for me so far!  Thanks, Again!
thebunny

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 #10 
I understand that the shaft needs to be aligned with the front arm in the set-up.  But I'd like to ask about the angle of the wrist "up and down".  I set up with my hands low and the toe of the club slightly elevated.  This creates an angle between my arm (that part of the arm that is closest to my body when my palm faces behind me) and the lowest part of my thumb.  I think this probably isn't right!  Do I need to straighten out that angle so that my arm and lower thumb form a straight line?
Ross

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 #11 
The more you can straighten out that line (lower thumb/wrist up in line with arm), the better.  Here is why.  During the swing, the inertia of the club head pulling towards the ground, will always try to bring that part of your (lower thumb/wrist) "up". 

Another way you can think about this is trying to get the shaft "aligned" with the front arm at setup.  This takes a little practice. Try holding the club in the front arm only... then move the arm from the front shoulder only not allowing the club shaft to flop around so it moves in unison with the front arm... as you do this, you will find the most "solid" alignment of the shaft.  That is how we want the shaft at setup and back through impact.  This will give you very solid shots.

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DJC2650

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 #12 
Fairly new to the Ross method.  Had a few rounds in our league where I kept pace with the best players.  Then had a few rounds where I shot crazy high scores.  After these rounds, watched some Ross videos and went to the range.  My main problems are old ingrained habits in my set up and primarily in my swing where the wrists are not set or firm from my set up and it's down hill from there (shots all over the place). 

Being a taller golfer (6'2") I really concentrate on my set up.  Here is my routine which I really concentrate on even though it is time consuming.  Probably will get easier in time.

1.  Grip club straight out in front of me.  I stretch my arms to make sure the tops of the elbows are pointing up (and then later to my hips).  I think of getting my elbows kind of going under the club when stretched straight out like this.  Then I change my grip just slightly so that the right thumb overlaps and the index fix is like a trigger finger..

2.  I let this template drop straight down.  Being kind of barrel chested, I then sit down to the ball but before that, I straighten up my upper chest.  Much more comfortable this way instead of leaning over.  I find then I often sit too far and I then straighten up to the ball (getting the club shaft more vertical).

3. At this point I feel like I am in a good hitting position to take the club straight back and around my spine with my shoulders turning.  Feels much more closer to the ball and with my arms hanging straight down but the club face grounded nicely). I also just place a bit more weight on the front leg.  I let the club rise kind of naturally on plane and keep the club closed (as I call it but really keeping it square with firm wrists and grip).

4.  I keep my spine and lower body resisting at this point till I cannot turn any more.  Then I let the shoulders turn the spine and hips together (used to get this all wrong in the old one piece takeaway I had with my shoulders and spine).  I keep the shoulders turning and this lets the hands rise a bit more too.

Backswing feels much better even though it is much shorter but much more controlled.

Only minor problem I am encountering is, on the downswing and follow through, do I keep my head down and kind of sideways?  The helps my swing on level and not sway forward (kind of keeps you in a 'C' position and less upright on the finish).  Does not seem to be a big problem either way.  I notice Ross does not do this and the follow through looks more smooth. 

Anyway, I document what I do in my set up each time as I don't way to stray too far from the Ross basics.  Wish I had found this system years ago.






Ross

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 #13 
You want to keep your head still (not necessarily down*), until the back shoulder meets the chin on the downswing, then your head follows the body rotation up and out.  Keeping your head down too long prevents the correct body turn and acceleration.

* You want to have your chin up so there is room for the front shoulder to turn under it.

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 #14 
Thanks Ross - I do keep my chin up - one of my main set up points.  I will try following through and raising back up as you describe.  Sounds like a better way to finish up the swing.
DJC2650

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 #15 
Ross,

You have probably been over this a lot but could you review when you shift your weight (60% or more) onto the left side during the set up?  I am trying to in grain this in my routine.   I find that I drop the template straight down, sit down to the ball and then lean over just slightly.  Then, I shift my weight forward slightly and this also seems to prompt my forward press (which gets the shaft in line with my front arm).  Seems to be working fine but in some ways I'd like to not deloft the club.

Could not tell exactly in the videos when you shift the weight forward. Probably happens while you are sitting down to the ball or right after.

I set up with my feet square and thought about opening up a bit to the target line.   However, I find that deviating from the main Ross method is not a good idea.
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